Posts by Anders Andersen

9

Reclaimed voices respond to jw.org's recent public statement regarding the Dutch governments decision to investigate

by Diogenesister in

i'm so sorry if this has already been posted but i think its too important and interesting to miss.. reclaimed voices chairman raymond hintjies responds to jw.orgs dutch lawyer's statement that the dutch govt.

investigating watchtower's 300 incidents of csa would be akin to"shooting a mosquito with a water cannon" .

i particularly like raymond's sensitive message to concerned jw parents, at around 3 minutes or so, .

Anders Andersen

@DOC

https://www.wikihow.com/Turn-On-YouTube-Subtitles

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

Anders Andersen

Interesting article!

Theres a side of the story I'd like to add though. The same Kahan mentioned multiple times in the article did research into how both intelligence and 'scientific curiosity' have an effect on how people perceive facts.

The results?

Higher intelligence results in people being smarter at finding and understanding evidence that supports their worldview, while having enough arguments to refute evidence that shows them wrong. Intelligent people are better at believing something that is actually wrong.

So what helps people accept the real facts, even if it may not fit in their world view? Curiosity. Curiosity into finding more information about a subject. Not just to fortify their own position, but to actually learn.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/2/1/14392290/partisan-bias-dan-kahan-curiosity

That's why even intelligent people join and stay in cults. They're intelligent, but not curious enough.

And that's why Jw are strongly told to never even have a tiny look at apostate information, as curiosity can lead to their 'spiritual demise'.

36

Anybody here still believe in the bible?

by Mel Morris in

jw
friends

i'm a current bible student of jw's looking to chat with someone about biblical doctrine.

i'm not interested in talking with an apostate or a fader, i'm just a person looking for answers and wondered if there are any neutral voices in this forum who have good insights into the bible.

i currently talk with a couple of jw's on a personal level from my congregation and they are knowledgeable to a certain extent, but i dare not ask them certain questions because, as you know, the congregation has a culture of fear that impacts trust and openness, especially concerning biblical doctrine or the societies teachings.

Anders Andersen

Hi Mel,

Welkome! I hope you realize that unless you accept Watchtower doctrine 100% you're an apostate yourself already (according to Watchtower).

So why avoid your peers? ;-)

43

Be Couragous! - (Like The Governing Body?)

by pale.emperor in

i was watching lloyd evans rebuttal to the saturday program of the be courageous convention.

lloyd pointed out something that had occurred to me as well:.

all this talk and examples of courage, whether it be standing up in class defending intelligent design, putting up with being imprisoned, not running away from bullies, always having a reply to someone who tries to ridicule your faith... the young ones are encourages - nay, commanded - to stand their ground and be courageous.

Anders Andersen

@doubter

You may have something of a point when saying that it isn't fair to narrow down the definition of courage down to the examples discussed, and that the GB once had the opportunity to show courage in their lives as lowly publishers.

However, you're wrong on a couple of things:

It is their job to boldly proclaim the good news before judges and magistrates. Of all JW, especially the GB are to do this. The 'other sheep' are merely playing a supporting role in the preaching work, for the preaching work is actually a task for the anointed (such as the GB). The GB also claim to be 'ambassadors' for Jesus and the Kingdom. Ambassadors of all people should be willing to proudly represent their government.

Public Relations deal with media, lawyers deals with legal matters, the GB deals with doctrine.

Nowhere does the Bible indicate that God's people should be structured exactly like an American commercial enterprise. It doesn't appear the apostles had divided tasks like speaking to rulers, judges or inquiring members of the public. All of them did all of that. And since the GB sign off on (and therefore bear responsibility for) any and all doctrine, publication and policy, they of all people should be willing to stand up for what they signed off on, regardless of the legal entities they have cooked up. Legally the GB may not be in charge of Watchtower, morally they claim to be appointed and in charge of anything and everything Jesus uses for the Earthly part of his Kingdom. According to JW that includes Watchtower. Saying otherwise is abusing legal technicalities to get out of something that is a moral responsibility.

Why are the GB not talking to reporters, etc? It’s not their jobs. Their jobs are to establish and defend doctrine.

'It is not my job' is quite a lame excuse. Sure, we can accept that when a request for a interview comes in that the PR dept. would handle that (strange thought....aren't all JW part of the PR dept. by definition?). But when approached in person, why not stay and proudly present the Kingdom and defend it's divine rules and policies? Can you imagine Paul or Peter running away when a reporter starting asking the hard questions? Lol

Courageous people don't hide behind 'not my job'.

That guy that courageously saved people from a house fire? He was just passing by; he's not a firefighter. It's not his job.

That woman that saved a drowning person? She's not with the coast guard; it's not her job.

We call these people courageous in part because they acted on something that's not their job.

If a lack of overlap implies “cowardice” then every organization on the planet is full of “cowards”.

Most organizations don't go and tell all their employees they must be courageous and willing to defend the organization everywhere they go. Can you imagine Coca Cola telling their employees' children they should courageously speak up when they see someone in school drinking Pepsi, saying Coca Cola is the only true cola? :-D And then when the CEO of Coca Cola is called into an Royal Commission hearing and is asked whether Coca Cola is the one true cola, he fumbles around "it would seem quite presumptuous to say that Coca Cola is the one true cola....."

The examples Pale Emperor listed are great examples of how the GB do not show courage when the opportunity arises. They act exactly as one would expect from corporate directors, not as one would expect from spirit-directed, Jesus-backed leaders of God's people.

43

Be Couragous! - (Like The Governing Body?)

by pale.emperor in

i was watching lloyd evans rebuttal to the saturday program of the be courageous convention.

lloyd pointed out something that had occurred to me as well:.

all this talk and examples of courage, whether it be standing up in class defending intelligent design, putting up with being imprisoned, not running away from bullies, always having a reply to someone who tries to ridicule your faith... the young ones are encourages - nay, commanded - to stand their ground and be courageous.

Anders Andersen

Their jobs are to establish and defend doctrine

I always thought that was Jesus' job. Guess he was replaced then....

43

Be Couragous! - (Like The Governing Body?)

by pale.emperor in

i was watching lloyd evans rebuttal to the saturday program of the be courageous convention.

lloyd pointed out something that had occurred to me as well:.

all this talk and examples of courage, whether it be standing up in class defending intelligent design, putting up with being imprisoned, not running away from bullies, always having a reply to someone who tries to ridicule your faith... the young ones are encourages - nay, commanded - to stand their ground and be courageous.

Anders Andersen

PE well thought out and with sources included. Perfect!

25

JW Door-to-Door Notekeeping Attracts Scrutiny of EU Authorities

by Room 215 in

a newly- enacted eu gdpr privacy protection law, to become effective from may 25, has apparently prompted jws to file suit in protest: .

(translated from the italian) .

source: ex-jwblog: http://testimonidigeovachiedono.blogspot.com/2018/05/le-note-di-casa-in-casa-sono-illegali-per-il-gdpr.html):.

Anders Andersen

It's funny how Watchtower tells their followers that the main reason the org exists is because the preaching work needs to be organized somehow....

...then turns around to the courts and claims they're not organising it at all...?

Something something pants on fire.

2

How long does a congergating keep your records?

by blownaway in

one think i just thought of posting on another thread, was due to my wife's parents being ill i will not make public waves.

we have had some of her old cong.

friends show up and do the end is so close and i just shut my mouth.

Anders Andersen

Current policy is that publisher cards for inactives should be kept indefinitely. Of course stuff might get lost or may have been purged by some rogue elder in the last decades.

25

JW Door-to-Door Notekeeping Attracts Scrutiny of EU Authorities

by Room 215 in

a newly- enacted eu gdpr privacy protection law, to become effective from may 25, has apparently prompted jws to file suit in protest: .

(translated from the italian) .

source: ex-jwblog: http://testimonidigeovachiedono.blogspot.com/2018/05/le-note-di-casa-in-casa-sono-illegali-per-il-gdpr.html):.

Anders Andersen

I sent in a tip to our national Privacy Authority to make sure they are aware of this verdict, and that JW in my country operate the same way..

25

JW Door-to-Door Notekeeping Attracts Scrutiny of EU Authorities

by Room 215 in

a newly- enacted eu gdpr privacy protection law, to become effective from may 25, has apparently prompted jws to file suit in protest: .

(translated from the italian) .

source: ex-jwblog: http://testimonidigeovachiedono.blogspot.com/2018/05/le-note-di-casa-in-casa-sono-illegali-per-il-gdpr.html):.

Anders Andersen

Smiddy,

That's standard operating procedure.